The Liberal Lie, The Conservative Truth

Exposing the Liberal Lie through current events and history. “Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe every day is April 15.” ****** "We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free." RONALD REAGAN

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Two Reagan conservatives who believe that the left has it wrong and just doesn't get it!

HISTORICAL QUOTE OF THE WEEK - "Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other." ABRAHAM LINCOLN

Sunday, October 29, 2006


The Blog of the Week spotlight falls on, "Hard Astarboard." Seth, the author, compiles good conservative thought with a mirad of links on different subjects and to various locations throughout the web. He even gives the reader the opportunity to change the look of his blog at the click of a mouse. Interesting reading and worth adding as a link


Anonymous Seth said...

Wow, thanks, I am both honored and humbled.

Having done some reading herein, I am also gratified to you for your well expressed, right thinking and patriotic output. You guys have an excellent site, and your tributes to the great Ronald Reagan echo my own thoughts, as well.

A kindred spirit I remain...

6:59 PM, October 29, 2006  
Anonymous GM Roper said...

I have known Seth for sometime now, and you could not have found a better gentleman on the web. Seth posts the best of conservative thinking. Good choice fellows. In fact, a damn good choice.

8:09 PM, October 29, 2006  
Blogger Gayle said...

I visit Seth often and he's also an e-mail friend. You made an excellent choice! :)

10:23 PM, October 29, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

I took a look at Seth's site - nice looking graphic and format. I didn't dig too deep, but his latest post is typical of how ignorant folks are about basic U.S. economic facts. He is passing along bad info.

Still, good luck with the blog Seth. I do hope you actually look up the real fiscal numbers (on government websites) and at least try to understand them before you post.

7:41 AM, October 30, 2006  
Anonymous Seth said...

Rob --

As I replied to your comments over at my place, I base my economic outlook on the infinitely more dependable source -- the Marketplace.

For several years during the 1980s, I worked in the Commodities business in New York. I know how to read government figures. However --

Govt figures are generated by departments run by cabinet members, who are political appointees with agendas. If you think for a NY second that I would trust economy figures compiled under the Clinton Administration, for example...

Stock prices and dividends, indices, futures trends etc are far more accurate and not agenda inspired, and as I said, they are the economy. Corporate reports are easily cross referenced with other data to determine their voracity.

The government was not meant to be an information clearing house. Our founding fathers intended its sole functions to be

a) to protect us from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and

b) to represent us in relations with other countries.


11:27 AM, October 30, 2006  
Blogger Seth said...

Gayle and GM --

Thank you for your kind words. :-)

11:29 AM, October 30, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

Seth - the government figures are what Wall Street bases its projections on. Fine, if you don't believe the Clinton figures (which is just inane, given that a Republican Congress accepted the figures), how about economic figures put together by Bush's appointees?

Bush's own figures show that the government has increased government spending by more than $1 trillion per year, the budget surplus that Bush inherited is now a huge deficit, the National Debt has increased by nearly $3 trillion, and foreign banks now hold an additional $1.1 trillion in U.S. Debt. These are figures provided by Bush's government.

Explain them away - please educate me.

1:07 PM, October 30, 2006  
Blogger Seth said...

Rob --

I attempted to answer you at my own place awhile ago, but there is a technical problem in effect that wiped out my entire reply.

So I will attempt to answer you one last time -- if you refuse to try and digest this, I will place you in my troll file and will not respond to you again.

The data the govt uses to develop their own statistics and interest rates DOES NOT ORIGINATE in the government. IT ORIGINATES IN THE MARKETPLACE. In the private sector. This is where all the people who know what they are talking about are -- they are where they can cash in on their knowledge. With the exceptions of SecTreas and the Fed Chairman, there is a paucity of people on the govt payroll who know their touchases from an oak tree where finance is concerned.

Figures, interest rates and policies generated by the govt are bounced back to the private sector from whence the data on which they are based comes.

I have attempted to explain this to you too many times, and this will be the last.

I have absolutely no faith in govt dissemination of the data they receive from the private sector because

a) the best and the brightest do not, and never have worked for the government, and

b) as I said previously, govt figures are spun by whichever administration happens to be in place at the time.

7:15 PM, October 30, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

OK, so your point is that the government doesn't read the marketplace correctly. Thus, their figures are wrong and unreliable.

If that is what you believe, that is hilarious. But, I will say at least it is an original - albeit ridiculous - way to explain away the truly bad numbers under the current President.

You should send your theory to Wall Street. I am sure they will be interested in changing all of their investment decision-making strategies. Everyone should forget what the Bureau of Economic Analysis says about GDP, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says about unemployment, the Treasury Dept. says about the National Debt and the deficits, OMB reports about the President's budget, and the Fed says about interest rates. Instead, we should just go with Seth's gut. Hilarious!

So the non-existent recession of the late 1990s that you posted about on your blog (and which I questioned on your blog) is just based on your re-interpretation of market data. Forget that no economist agrees with you and that the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis says the the economy grew rapidly in the late 1990s - we should just take your word for it. Thanks, but no thanks.

11:40 PM, October 30, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

Seth, since you believe the market is the true indicator of the economy - over all else - you must believe that Clinton was king. The Dow went from 3000 to 11,000 over his 8 years in office.

Bush has taken the Dow from 11,000 to 12,000 over his 6 years.

The NASDAQ went from about 900 to 4000 under Clinton. It has fallen back to 2364 under Bush.

Even if you think the government data is not accurate, using your own methodology Bush doesn't come close to Clinton.

12:45 AM, October 31, 2006  
Anonymous Seth said...

You are twisting what I'm saying, Rob, or not paying attention, and I will not play that game with you, so this ends here.

Have a nice day.

4:56 AM, October 31, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

Weak, Seth, weak. You say the market is your barometer but then when I point out how the market performed under Bush and Clinton you have no respone.

You say that the government doesn't know how to interpret numbers - but you do. The government figures are done the same way by statute year after year - it doesn't matter who is in office. But the fact that you think you know better is just plain funny.

But I won't bother you anymore on your blog - it is clear you don't want to actually debate. You want to just believe what you believe even in the face of overwhelming evidence against you that is produced by the market and the Bush Administration's Treasury Dept, BLS, BEA, and the Republican CBO.

Have a nice day.

8:41 AM, October 31, 2006  
Anonymous mudkitty said...

Seth is cut and running.

Evidence doesn't matter to rightwingers. Truth has a liberal bias, remember?

11:49 AM, October 31, 2006  
Anonymous Seth said...

No, the "professor" is ignoring everything I say, not even acknowledging that he has given any thought to any of it, and continually repeating the same thing over and over.

That is how liberals debate, and I simply have better and more important things to do with my time than glorify his yearning for attention. He is an insugnificant organism from my POV, and not worth repeating and reiterating for.

Understand that while the likes of you and him have nothing better to do all day than troll other folks blogs, waiting to "pounce", most of us with lives have stuff to do.

3:41 PM, October 31, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

I don't troll - I made my way over because Ken (who I disagree with but who I respect) indicated that you had a good blog.

Anyone can go over to your site and see that I posted four times on a thread that had 28 postings.

My first post I asked about you to explain the phantom recession from the late 1990s you referred to in your original post - you did not respond.

Second, I cited unemployment, deficit, and debt figures that favored Clinton over Bush. You claimed the government does not know what it is talking about and cannot interpret data.

Third, I talked about NCLB, deficit spending, and interest rates in response to your claim of "tangible" economic effects.

Finally, I accepted that you did not believe government figures and then asked what your definition of a recession was - since you claimed one happened in the late 1990s. Again, no response.

Anyone can go to your site and check for themselves. But here are the facts - I did not repeat myself. You never responded to my initial question about what phantom recession you are referring to (because there wasn't a recession), and now over here you won't respond to the point I made about the fact that the market performed much better under Clinton than it did under Bush. You claim that the market is the decider of a good economy - so by that logic you have to admit that Clinton was better than Bush - but you don't/won't.

Now I see that you are crying like a baby, making false claims about what I posted, threatening to put me on your "troll list," and calling me names.

I guess when you cannot respond like an adult, it is easy to revert to child-like behaviors and be just plain rude.

Have a happy Halloween.

7:22 PM, October 31, 2006  
Anonymous Seth said...

Rob --

I am not "crying like a baby", I am simply citing a fact: You ignore my point that govt data and the decisions based on that data originate in the private sector.

Most of those I know (quite a few) who have become independently wealthy in the marketplace have done so by getting a jump on everybody else by acting on the raw data they acquired before the rest of the pack received the govt's product based on same.

Being a liberal, you believe that the govt has to be the ultimate authority. You cannot accept the fact that the marketplace leads the economy, not the govt. That is the essence of a capitalist republic. What you perceive is the wishful thinking of the liberal, who is by nature a socialist.

I have debated for weeks on my blog in the past with people who opposed my POV, and not only have no problem with that, but actually enjoy it, if for nothing other than the intellectual stimulation.

But you don't debate, you only consider your own POV and rather than debate, you ignore the basis of my beliefs and prefer to browbeat rather than debate.

My business requires a lot of time and concentration, and I only have a finite amount of time to devote to the Blogosphere. As such, I can only allocate so much of my time and attention to specific situations. When I come to the realization that I am wasting my time attempting to debate with someone, I have to move on, or neglect others with whom I either interract or debate (I have several debates going, for example, via email).

When I say my "troll list" I am only using a figure of speech, LOL. Sort of like threatening to throw someone in the "hurt locker", as a retired SEAL friend of mine likes to say when one disagrees with him.

As to you, happy belated Halloween.

2:08 PM, November 01, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

I will take your word that you weren't being literal. However, given your name calling and the tone of your messages you should see that it is impossible to tell that you were joking.

OK, so you have a private-sector analysis methodology or system that you use to project forward. It must be one heck of a system, but let me ask you four simple questions:

1. Do you believe that government figures at the OMB, CBO, BEA, BLS, Fed, and Treasury Department are accurate w/respect to historical U.S. government fiscal performance? (I am not referring to projections - just actual figures on spending, budgets, debt, etc. at year end)

2. Do you agree that Wall Street uses government figures from the agencies I cited to determine their investment strategies?

3. Since you believe in the almighty market, do you agree that the market performed much, much better under Clinton than Bush?

4. Going back to my original question, how did you arrive at your contention that there was a recession in the late 1990s?

Take your time, I realize you are busy.

2:36 PM, November 01, 2006  
Blogger Rob said...

Seth, I deliberately made the questions yes/no questions. But feel free to clarify if you must.

4:18 PM, November 01, 2006  
Anonymous mudkitty said...

I don't trust any numbers out of the Bush Administraion. They are well known cherry pickers.

3:54 PM, November 03, 2006  
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